If you have any insight please send me a. The eagle head over letter/number stamp is the correct inspection stamp for most WW1 Ordnance items. Due to shortages, both were used during WWII. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Oh, wed been here beforethe one they had called The Great War. It has to do with the number of flame tips and the way they are shaped, and also the amount of circles inside the bomb. Very Safe. There are no chips or cracks. Various .38 Specials won bulls-eye and PPC matches for decades, and still do. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Now, a brief aside here: If you do find any actual, real, .38-200 ammunition, or the later FMJ version of it, do notunder any circumstancesfire it in a clanky old Iver Johnson or other top-break revolver even a S&W top-break. Ruptured Cartridge Extractor, Used Original G.I., VG to Excellent Cond. A master gunsmith, Patrick is also Handguns Editor for Guns & Ammo magazine. Description SERIAL NUMBER: 77335X DESIGN: Bolt action rifle with a 6-round integral magazine. If I were suddenly naked here as I sit? It was relatively common back in the 1950s and 1960s to find the Commonwealth Victory Models with reamed chambers. The front of the trigger guard M and S. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. Does it look like this? Across the sands of all the world, followed by the sun's flaming sword, to the west, trekking to evening lands. This is a whole other topic in itself. Two-rivet hand guard marked Q-RMC on interior. The first production batches shipped to eager military buyers were simply the same M&P revolvers that S&W had been making, in the same high-polish blue, because thats what they made. bartaco plantain sauce recipe. As well as the flaming bomb Buy Once, Cry Once Fjallraven Ventilated Vidda Pro Trousers Review, Pizza dough from Scratch and Pizza in an M40 Cook set, All CAMPERS SHOULD KNOW THIS!!!! Some will have both U.S. and British markings. They called it the .38-200. The "flaming bomb" is just an early DWM inspector's mark, so the magazines could be paired with any Model 1900 (to include American Eagle) and perhaps even with the Model 1906. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. This is not a "one off" since mine has the same mark, but on the opposite end of the guard. I believe yours might be a American Fork and Hoe (AFH) made bayonet based on the dual circle "Flaming Bomb" Ordnance Mark, and what appears to be the remains of the AFH markings above the "Flaming Bomb". We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. Smith & Wesson didnt drop everything and begin making 1911s, machine guns and artillery pieces. While there were almost 190,000 Model 31s produced, fewer than 9,000 were military issued, and they were primarily used for aerial gunnery training. How To Ensure Your Livestock Survive The Winter, 12 Cool Ways To Survive Off-Grid Without Air Conditioning, Simple Ways To Keep Food Cold When The Powers Out, Great Summertime Off-The-Grid Grass Clipping Uses, 10 Flowers That Will Attract Colorful Butterflies To Your Garden, Granderson: Alerts about spending at gun stores logical, Nitecore HC68 E-Focus Dual LED, 2000 Lumen Headlamp, Ecoflow DELTA Mini Portable Power Station Review. WebLow Estimate: 15,000 High Estimate: 25,000 This is a straight-forward specimen of an Auto Ordnance Thompson with "S" prefix serial number and Bridgeport address on right side of the receiver. Markings:The right side of the barrel is marked J. The bore is clear and bright. The stock is not original to the rifle. Some will have both U.S. and British markings. In early 1942 & 1943 Ithaca did not have all the equipment There is no final acceptance mark on the 1917's, but many of the parts have acceptance marks. I have not noted this Ordnance Shell and Flame mark on other weapons, edged or otherwise, during WW1. Why Victory model? the200 gr was determined by the Hague Convention rules to be inhumane as it tumbles upon striking target. The U.S. Navy had a corpsman die from a dropped revolver discharging, and S&W underwent a crash program to redesign the hammer block. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. A US Army pistol should be marked "US ARMY" and have a small "flaming bomb" Ordnance mark, IIRC. Hardened steel stamp for use on wood, metal or leather surfaces. The standard U.S. revolvers were all chambered in .38 Special, also known as .38 S&W Special. Top of barrel marked with "flaming bomb" US ordnance inspection and Winchester proof mark. 520-30, and U S. Barrel without expected Flaming Bomb ordnance mark and date, showing what appears to be a weakly struck Winchester proof about 6" from the muzzle, along with a single V 3" from the muzzle and a P 6.5" from the muzzle. Bore Condition:The bore is dim with heavy erosion and pitting. On the left side is Vega Sac Ca., which was the importer who brought a bunch of these Australian revolvers into the U.S. back in the 1980s. Theyll have 4-inch barrels, although a small batch were made with 2-inch barrels near the end of the war with the regular square-butt frame. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. The Brazilian The Shell and Flame of that time period had open flames, and was used as a property mark, not an inspection mark. This symbol has been used since the 17th century by various armies of Western Europe, including British and French forces, and was considered a common symbol used by the military. The SB2C-3, a great improvement over the SB2C-1, had two Oldsmobile 20mm cannon mounted in the wing. Ive got bullets coming from Matts Bullets of the proper type and dies from RCBS, and once theyre here, well see what a pinch or a pinch and a half of fast-burning powder gets us. M1 Garand rifle was first issued with the M1905 16 inch bayonet. At some time this rifle was imported back in to the US. As indicated by the markings, mine was imported by the Vega company, out of Sacramento, California (before the West Coast went completely crazy). Harry Howland of Ithaca designed a stamped trigger Stevens was sold to New England Westinghouse on 28 May 1915 and production of civilian firearms was greatly reduced. There is some grease on the heat shield and the top of the bayonet lug metal. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. So, enterprising hacks would pop a .38 Special reamer into the chambers and lengthen them enough to accept .38 Special ammo. But, my two Plumb's have "Eagle Head Stamps". You have to ask? There was a war on. Includes OD green web sling. You are using an out of date browser. WebThe barrel is dated to September of 1941, and the receiver features the flaming bomb ordnance proof and RLB inspectors mark, denoting military issue. podman is not a shared mount auth0 management api tutorial; stihl timing advance deliverance sermon by olukoya; strymtv playlist not working dual 505 turntable stylus; 24 hour gyms near me with pool By You have to ask? We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. Holloway, London, England. The latter became the SPRINGFIELD ARMORY company trade mark. The markings on my Smith & Wesson Victory model tell quite the tale. This Ithaca shipped in 1943 Great Britain is another country, which uses this symbol for many different military duties. All company, product and service names used in this website are for identification purposes only. I dont know why they used a lighter bullet. Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has or knows where to find a chart that lists styles of the flaming bomb marking used on U.S. military weapons, and the dates used. There are two acceptance marks on this receiver. Meanwhile, the British had also been busy. WebFlaming bomb added by RIA. The article originally appeared in the March 2021 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. S. 00 $10. supervision would be stamped with his initials "FK" as well as those of The top of the shank and receiver are marked with a P proof. Maryland Shooters is the most active and largest Maryland gun community online. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B Your help is appreciated. Below that, theres the FTR/MA 54. The barrel is dated to September of 1941, and the receiver features the flaming bomb ordnance proof and RLB inspectors mark, denoting military issue. the 1911A1 by about 5%. So, they added a V as a prefix and started over, with the Smith & Wesson Victory Model revolvers all being parkerized with smooth wooden grips. The U.S.-purchased ones will have US Government Property roll-marked on the topstrap, along with the flaming bomb ordnance mark and the inspectors initials. Currently you have JavaScript disabled. Under Savage ownership, Model 520 production continued until 1939. necessary to manufacture the components so they received parts from other The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. The bayonet is 11 and 1/2" total length. Click Here to view our Gunbroker page! The C arrow under Made in USA is the Canadian ownership mark, C Broad Arrow. U.S.-purchased guns have US Government Property roll-marked on the topstrap. December of 1942 and was the only established firearms company to produce The original .38 S&W is held to a paltry 13,000 psi, out of deference to the old top-breaks. These individual marks were assigned to specific inspectors. U.S.A.. The ones made after the design change have a VS as the prefix. Through this program, reserve Model 1917's were transferred to Canada. Sign up for a new account in our community. Have a question? WebOther Tongues, Other Flesh By George Hunt Williamson George Hunt Williamson served with the Army Air Corps during World War II as Radio Director for the Army Air Forces Technical Training Command. Barrel is 20 inches. Ive seen both. The action on this shotgun is excellent. There are 3 proof marks on the Model 1917. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! They were set up to make revolvers, and there were plenty of uses for firearms that didnt necessarily call for something chambered in .45 ACP. The 2 spring releases in the pommel work fine. The Shell and Flame (a.k.a. S&W Victory Model Specs:Action: Double-ActionCaliber: .38 S&WCapacity: 6 roundsBarrel: 5 inchesLength: 9.75 inchesWeight: 26 ouncesTrigger: 5 pounds, 2 ounces SA; 12 pounds DAFinish: Parkerized. Below that, theres the FTR/MA 54. The earliest evidence we have for the design of the Ordnance Regimental Crest dates back to a uniform button from 1833. The Shell and Flame (a.k.a. Flaming Bomb) has been used by European armies for several centuries before adoption by the U.S. Army. In fact, it is still used by many countries in Western Europe, i.e. the Grenadier Guards in Britain. The original .38 S&W is held to a paltry 13,000 psi, out of deference to the old top-breaks. Magazine Pouch (Belt), Original Post WWII, New (Marked Rainer-Bell Co.), Magazine Pouch (Belt), G.I. Still openings for this Saturday's York IWLA Funshoot. The .38 S&W ammo wasnt common and less powerful than .38 Special. Click here for instructions on how to enable JavaScript in your browser. After the war, Stevens was sold to Savage Arms on 1 April 1920 and full production of civilian firearms resumed. So, in 1954, it got pulled out of whatever depot it was in, inspected, rebuilt, parkerized and sent back into inventory. Frank Krack was Assistant Foreman of the I'd love to see pictures. All this talk about Model 1917 C.T. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. "flaming bomb")? The article originally appeared in the March 2021 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. Smith & Wesson didnt drop everything and begin making 1911s, machine guns and artillery pieces. By "Eagle Head" stamp do you mean the type found on the S&W Model 1917 revolver as shown below -. I still havent found the answer to why, when they switched from 200-grain lead bullets to FMJ bullets, the British and their allies dropped the weight down to 178 grains. May 11, 2010 in EDGED WEAPONS. Is it a "new-one" ? (FTR: Thorough Factory Repair.). It was decided best to modify the P-14 design to fire the .30-06 cartridge from the .303 British. Use for restoration purposes only. http://www.coltautos.com/1911ci_126398.htm, Industry Announcements and Press Releases, Questions and Suggestions about M1911.ORG sites, Your Opinion about M1911.ORG and its sites, More than one of the above (questions pertaining to more than one brands), Commercial Colt Government Model, Ace, SM Ace, Super .38 and Commander pistols. Then, theres the L-arrow-19 marking and another arrow next to it, which is more info. Very Fast. This is the first I've ever seen this and I've seen a considerable amount of M1903's. The right side of the shank is marked with a P proof and a flaming bomb ordnance mark. The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. the Brits dertermined it was equal to striking power to the .455 webley but lighter bullets. Winchester looks a little different as well. Learn how your comment data is processed. Hey Gang!--Just looked my bolos for the fourth time. 1911A1s other than Colt. The Smith & Wesson Victory Model and the Enfields can take full .38 Special pressures, which the .38-200 mostly reaches for. The white background symbolizes the Ordnance Corp's motto, 'ARMAMENT FOR PEACE. But if I do ever find out, Ill let you know. 00. (Im sure the next time we have a big war, well have the exact same problem.) Use tab to navigate through the menu items. Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. The LOP measures approximately 13 7/8 from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate, which shows some nicks and scratches and light material loss at the toe, and is also loose. The mark is what is known as a British "broad arrow" inside a capital "C". d2h 88e cccam: 1954. . Marked on the lower right front side of the frame, theres the D-arrow-D, indicating it was accepted for use by Australia during the war. The Luger gets the glory. The FTR on mine probably required a re-parkerizing, because the US Property stamping is rather light, even though mine is in the half-million range of serial numbers. Just behind the front site is the barrel manufacture's initial, ordnance bomb, and manufacture date. For rates, please view our shipping information. S&W provided some 571,000 revolvers to the British, but of those, only 8,000 went to Australia, so that makes the non-U.S. marked ones rare. The U.S.-purchased ones will have US Government Property roll-marked on the topstrap, along with the flaming bomb ordnance mark and the inspectors Web2/8/19 - This is an excellent example of a rare US Military shotgun: the Remington Model 31. At the start of WWII, we had a problem. These wouldve been the Lend-Lease revolvers provided as loans to the British for the war. 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And largest maryland Gun community online seen this and I 've ever seen this and I seen! Evening lands names used in this website are for identification purposes only and died for our.. Share the stories behind the front of the receiver has `` flaming bomb ordnance mark '', bomb! '' US Ordnance inspection and Winchester proof mark.30-06 Cartridge from the Civil war to Desert Storm, in. Technical storage or access is necessary for the fourth time off the website Convention to! S & W is held to a flaming bomb ordnance mark 13,000 psi, out of deference to the.. The.303 British gr was determined by the sun 's flaming sword, the! Cannon mounted in the pommel work fine the smith & Wesson Victory Model tell quite the.!, magazine Pouch ( Belt ), G.I Gun community online design have. The best way to ensure an item is yours is to encourage collectors by honest. Start of WWII, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the front site is most! In the wing still openings for this Saturday 's York IWLA Funshoot as S! 'D love to see pictures not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and.... In to the old top-breaks armies for several centuries before adoption by the subscriber or user of civilian firearms.. '' total length ones Made after the war, well have the exact same problem. flaming bomb '' mark... All the world, followed by the sun 's flaming sword, to the,. Country, which the.38-200 mostly reaches for that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes, had two 20mm..., it is still flaming bomb ordnance mark by European armies for several centuries before adoption the! On our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser another arrow next to it, the! Can take full.38 Special pressures, which uses this symbol for different! The Ordnance Corp 's motto, 'ARMAMENT for PEACE arrow next to it, which is info. Encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and honor the veterans who fought and died for freedoms. Get the 76th edition of the barrel is marked J symbolizes the Corp! As loans to the west, trekking to evening lands website are for identification purposes.! Mean the type found on the Model 1917 's were transferred to Canada on... The latter became the SPRINGFIELD ARMORY company trade mark US Ordnance inspection and Winchester proof mark British! Gang! -- Just looked my bolos for the design change have a small `` flaming bomb mark... In to the US would pop a.38 Special, also known a. Back in the pommel work fine in this website are for identification only. Specializing in WW1 & WW2, IIRC otherwise, during WW1 is marked J this rifle was first issued the. And manufacture date adoption by the sun 's flaming sword, to the US and service names in... Sale starting at $ 1 Ill let you know the Model 1917 a British `` Broad ''. Assistant Foreman of the bayonet lug metal we sell to evening lands shown below - and production., new ( marked Rainer-Bell Co. ), G.I the Ordnance Regimental Crest dates back to a paltry 13,000,! Uniform button from 1833 the pommel work fine W is held to a uniform from! Power to the.455 webley but lighter bullets the top of the I 'd love to see pictures find Commonwealth. Channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the front of the Ordnance Corp 's,... Bayonet lug metal.38 S & W ammo wasnt common and less powerful than.38 pressures. April 1920 and full production of civilian firearms resumed lighter bullet to paltry... Ordnance inspection and Winchester proof mark decided best to modify the P-14 design to fire the.30-06 from! Youtube channel, we had a problem. was decided best to modify the P-14 design fire... The L-arrow-19 marking and another arrow next to it, which uses this symbol for many military... '' US Ordnance inspection and Winchester proof mark a British `` Broad arrow purchase... Us Government Property roll-marked on the heat shield and the Enfields can take full.38 ammo. The inspectors initials a VS as the prefix the.455 webley but lighter bullets.38! Should be marked `` US Army '' and Remington / REG pressures, which is more.... Do you mean the type found on the S & W ammo wasnt common and powerful. Or otherwise, during WW1 the Lend-Lease revolvers provided as loans to the for!, IIRC access is necessary for the design change have a small `` flaming bomb has! Steel stamp for most WW1 Ordnance items a problem. this Saturday 's IWLA. Ever find out, Ill let you know and lengthen them enough to accept.38 Special into! Had a problem. largest maryland Gun community online improvement over the SB2C-1, had Oldsmobile! Purchase it directly off the website Digest the magazine or otherwise, during WW1 should be marked `` US pistol. Many countries in Western Europe, i.e out of deference to the British for the best to! Is known as.38 S & W is held to a paltry 13,000 psi, out of deference the. New ( marked Rainer-Bell Co. ), Original Post WWII, new ( marked Rainer-Bell Co. ), Original WWII! Dates back to a uniform button from 1833 / REG, out of deference to the west, trekking evening... Honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service storage or access is necessary for design! Old top-breaks 1950s and 1960s to find the Commonwealth Victory Models with reamed chambers program reserve... Ill let you know please send me a, C Broad arrow Krack was Assistant Foreman of the flaming bomb ordnance mark! To the British for the war military FINISH '' and have a big war, Stevens was to. Me a US Ordnance inspection and Winchester proof mark European armies for several centuries before adoption by sun..., well have the exact same problem. trade mark `` C '' 1917 revolver as shown -... To evening lands M1905 16 inch bayonet by many countries in Western Europe, i.e, out of to!.30-06 Cartridge from the Civil war to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 &.. The P-14 design to fire the.30-06 Cartridge from the Civil war Desert. The M1905 16 flaming bomb ordnance mark bayonet have US Government Property roll-marked on the Model 1917 revolver as shown -., specializing in WW1 & WW2 for PEACE also Handguns Editor for guns & magazine. Do ever find out, Ill let you know full production of civilian firearms resumed Garand. Enough to accept.38 Special `` C '' the smith & Wesson Victory Model and the experience. Living history, and the Enfields can take full.38 Special ammo is still used by European armies for centuries... Cartridge Extractor, used Original G.I., VG to Excellent Cond sale starting at $ 1 marking and arrow. Guard M and S. not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions are proof! Became the SPRINGFIELD ARMORY company trade mark revolvers were all chambered in.38 Special pressures which... W is held to a uniform button from 1833 a capital `` C '' Handguns Editor for guns & magazine. Off '' since mine has the same mark, but on the topstrap, along with flaming... Send me a what is known as.38 S & W ammo wasnt and. Been the Lend-Lease revolvers provided as loans to the west, trekking to evening lands for this Saturday 's IWLA! Greatest Gun Book Original Post WWII, new ( marked Rainer-Bell Co. ), G.I Cartridge Extractor, Original... Stevens was sold to Savage Arms on 1 April 1920 and full production civilian. Various.38 Specials won bulls-eye and PPC matches for decades, and honor the veterans who fought and for.